“Hot Girl Talks” Podcast: American Hot Girls and European Older Men

During the summer of 2023, I began doing research for a new book, but last week, I re-visited my notes from the “Postcards from Europe” episode of the Hot Girl Talks podcast (Aug 18, 22), and I discovered that the episode had been removed from Spotify. (I’m not sure if a video for the episode was recorded, but there’s a hidden video on the YouTube playlist.) Eventually, I found the episode on Boomplay. But why was the episode removed from Spotify and hidden on YouTube?

To my knowledge, Jaz, Halley, and Carly (i.e., the Hot Girls) didn’t (over) share anything more than usual. For example, on the episode, which was recorded on a cruise in Marseille while on the way to Cannes, Jaz related that she didn’t pack her anxiety medicine; therefore, at JFK, she medicated with alcohol, got drunk, and began a conversation with a “random 45-year-old man” whom purchased shots for Jaz and Halley.

Carly, “Jaz was talking to a random 45-year-old man sitting next to her that was going to Vegas.”

Jaz, “He did buy us shots.”

Carly, “Then he bought them [Halley and Jaz] shots.”

Jaz, “I was curious about his job […]”

Although, then-25-year-old, Jaz was “curious” about the older man’s job, she and the man did not exchange contact information.

Jaz, Carly, and Halley

Jaz didn’t have her anxiety medicine, but she did have her weight loss medicine, which, per Jaz, “[...] makes you have to shit your brains out, which is why you lose weight on it.” In addition, Jaz ate ice cream and mac and cheese on the plane. Consequently, during the ride from the airport, Jaz started sweating and informed the other Hot Girls, “I’m going to shit my pants.” Ultimately, she found a bathroom, and she was in the loo for “awhile”, because she “took the fattest shit”. Jaz was self-conscious about exiting, because she feared that someone would know that she had “blown up” the loo.

Isabel Mayfair

After arriving in London, the Hot Girls went to Isabel [Mayfair], which is where they met “these random men”. The men were described as “wealthier” but “old”.

Carly, “They were all, like, finance, kind of like people. They were definitely, like, wealthier [...]”

Jaz, “Let me just preface. They were old.”

Carly, “They were old. They were old.”

Jaz, “Not, like, old, but, like, ancient.”

Carly, “No. They were in their 40s. They weren’t ancient.”

Halley, “That one guy was easily in his 50s. Maybe 60s.”

However, one of the men, a President Snow look-alike, was “way sexier”; thus, then-22-year-old Halley confessed that she would have “fucked him”.

Halley, “President Snow from Game of Thrones, but, like, way sexier. Like, I’m not gonna lie. I would have fucked him. I would have.”

Carly, “[...] he had kids. Like, he was super nice. Actually, he was probably my favorite.”

Jaz, “I agree.”

Carly, “He was sexy. He was sexy. If you guys saw him, you'd get it.”

It appears that Halley did not fuck the President Snow look-alike, but then-25-year-old Carly made out with a man at Isabel whom she said was, like, a 41-year-old New York City finance bro type.

Halley, “Carly walked up to a table of guys. Asked if they were single. They were all in relationships, except for one, we thought they were so hot - inside.”

Carly, “Also, we need to backtrack. So I kept, like, hanging out with this guy H. Who was, like, kind of ugly, but he gave me, like, New York City finance bro vibes. He was, like, 41 [...] it was a mix of, like, the London accent, me being drunk, him saying he was in finance, or no, he was a lawyer. And he was visiting New York soon, and he was talking about his family. And we just, like, had a really great conversation [...] but usually I, like, don't like ugly guys. But TBH, he's, he was probably a 5 [...] Okay, all right, three and a half, but then imagine he's a 3 and a half, but he has a British accent, he's rich, he's older, he's a lawyer, and he has everything in common with you. It bumps it up to, like, at least an 8 and a half [...] Okay, I'm sorry, but for me, that's what my thought process was. I'm just defending myself.”

Halley, “No. It’s fine. Like, it was funny. And then she made out with him, and it was, like, alright, slay. Somebody's gotta do it.”

After London, the Hot Girls went to Opium in Barcelona where Jaz and Halley played “What are the Odds?’ that Jaz would make out with an old man.

Jaz, “Me and Halley play “What are the Odds?” [...] You say, ‘What are the odds that you do XYZ?’ And someone's like, oh, 1 through 100. And then you say, like, 123, and then you say that same number. Me and Halley play “What are the Odds?” I’ll make out with this old, disgusting man.”

Halley, “I’m not even kidding. He was a negative 4 out of 10.”

Jaz, “He was disgusting [...] And we go, ‘123’ [...] We were one number off for me having to make out with this disgusting, horrendous man.”

And at Opium, Carly said that she was, “[...] over at this table with these, like, Italian men. I thought the one was, like, pretty cute [...] I thought he was cute. He was younger. [...] And again, it's like, for me, it's about the banter and, like, the flirt. And he just, like, had the banter. He had - the banter. ” Consequently, Carly made out with the Italian man.

Interestingly, Carly described the Italian man as “younger” - not young; thus, we can safely infer that, unlike the men in London, he was below 50.

Summing up Barcelona, Carly said that it was a vibe, “Barcelona was fun for me because, like, I was making out with someone [i.e., the Italian man] and, like, when you’re making out with someone in the club it’s like a vibe.”

In a bit of a non-sequitur, Carly shared that she dry-shaved her pubic area and armpits. Consequently, she had the “worst razor fucking burn” from the dry shaving, “walking, chaffing, and sweating”. She asked Jaz and Halley to examine her vagina area with a flashlight, but Jaz had never looked at a vagina that “much and that long”; however, Carly related that, as a “crazy” camper, she had seen “plenty of vaginas”.

Carly, “If you went to camp you’d know that you saw plenty of vaginas in a lifetime and probably the inside of them. And probably all sides of them. Because at camp you just are, like, crazy. It’s just a thing. I don’t know, like, people who went to camp know. Just camp things.”

Next, the Hot Girls spoke about how difficult it was to post photos on social media. For example, Halley confessed, “I used to, like, Facetune for hours and do all this crazy shit.” Then, Jaz shared that, via vibrator, she climaxed on the cruise to Cannes. However, while Carly related that she puts her vibrator “inside”, Jaz said that she does not.

Jaz, “My climax was finally being able to masturbate yesterday [on the cruise].”

Halley, “You did.”

Jaz, “Yeah.”

Carly, “Yeah. She told me.”

Carly, “I can’t masturbate without a vibrator; so, I just don’t.”

Jaz, “Do you put your vibrator inside of you though.”

Carly, “Yeah.”

Jaz, “I don’t”

Carly, “Mine is like the inside and the on top one. You know? Okay. Yeah. I need - I like both. […] I’ll not masturbate for weeks - if I’m away.

In the end, the question remains: Why was “Postcards from Europe” removed from Spotify and hidden on YouTube? Was it because Jaz regretted sharing she “took the fattest shit” in a loo? Was it because Halley confessed that she would have fucked a President Snow look-alike? And/or was it because Carly regretted sharing that she made out with two different men in Europe? Or did Spotify remove the episode?

Notes:

1. Not having a video to reference made it difficult to distinguish Carly’s and Halley’s voices; therefore, there could be some mistakes with the quotes. To verify the quotes, reference the episode on Boomplay.
2. Per the Daily Mail, Halley was 24 on August 25, 2024; thus, she was approximately 22 when the episode was recorded. In an article that was dated September 29, 2022, Carly shared with Naluda Magazine, “I’m a 25-year old NYC-based lifestyle influencer [...]”, which would have made her approximately 25 when the episode was recorded. And in May of 2024, Reddit users MakeANewUserName and eading_Run1755 commented that Jaz is 27, which would have made her the same age as Carly when the pod was recorded.

Marc Jacobs' Ads: The Lolita Effect and Seductive Teen Models

About a month ago, I saw an advertisement on 40th and 8th in Manhattan for Marc Jacobs’ Daisy Wild perfume. Consequently, I recalled a short post that I wrote back in January of 2013 about Marc Jacobs' Oh Lola! perfume advertisement that featured 17-year-old Dakota Fanning holding a large phallic shaped bottle of Oh Lola! invitingly between her legs.

Jacobs related that he chose Fanning because he, " [...] knew she could be this contemporary Lolita - seductive yet sweet." Thus, we know from Jacobs himself that Fanning was chosen to seduce.

In addition, Jacobs agreed with professor and "man of letters" Robertson Davies' assessment of Lolita as: “[...] not [about] the corruption of an innocent child by a cunning adult, but [about] the exploitation of a weak adult by a corrupt child."

However, Mark Sweney posted on The Guardian “Marc Jacobs' Dakota Fanning ad banned for being 'sexually provocative'” (8 Nov 2011) Sweney wrote:

A provocative ad campaign for Marc Jacobs perfume featuring 17-year-old Dakota Fanning, the US actor who has starred in films including War of the Worlds and Charlotte's Web, has been banned [in the UK] following accusations that it sexualized children.

The magazine campaign [...] featured Fanning wearing a short skirt and holding a bottle of Marc Jacobs perfume in what the advertising regulator deemed a "sexually provocative" position between her legs.

And Sweney shared that the UK’s Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) received complaints that the advertisement was offensive and irresponsible, because it portrayed 17-year-old Fanning in a "sexualized manner" due to the "sexually provocative" way that the bottle of Oh Lola! “drew attention to her sexuality.” And, in the eyes of the ASA, Fanning “looked to be under the age of 16.” The ASA elaborated:

"We considered that the length of her dress, her leg and position of the perfume bottle drew attention to her sexuality." 

"Because of that, along with her appearance, we considered the ad could be seen to sexualise a child. We therefore concluded that the ad was irresponsible and was likely to cause serious offence."

15-year-old Ever Anderson for Daisy Wild | Marc Jacobs

Undeterred by the ASA, about a decade later, Jacobs had 15-year-old Ever Anderson pose with a large bottle of Daisy Wild in her lap, which “drew attention to her sexuality.” (Note: Anderson posted on her Instagram account that the photos were taken on October 22, 2022, in Atlanta, GA.)

And Anderson posed, one could say, comparatively innocently, with a number of other teen models; however, I would imagine that the ASA would have some issues with the video for Daisy Wild. In the video, the barely covered teen models stripped down to their white bras and panties, intimately touched while posing for the camera, and then skinny dipped into a Georgia lake. After frolicking in the lake, the scantily clad models attended a bonfire where they danced intimately. One model even danced at the bonfire in a sheer mini-skirt; thus, revealing her white panties. 

Prior to the release of Daisy Wild, Introducing Daisy Trio (2014), a film directed by Sofia Coppola, was posted on YouTube (Nov 25, 2014). In the film, once again, the teen models were skimpily clad in all white and, once again, the models frolicked intimately with implied sapphic diversions. 

In addition to perfumes, Jacobs has a fashion line. Brooke Frischer posted on Fashionista that "Heaven [by Marc Jacobs] and Bluemarine Made the High School Movie Wardrobe of Your Dreams a Reality" (JUL 7, 2023). Frischer wrote that Heaven by Marc Jacobs and Bluemarine are "beloved by Gen-Z" and that the campaign was shot "[...] by Petra Collins to boot.".

Per Frischer, Blumarine by Marc Jacobs features 11 of the brand's best-selling pieces, which boast the brand's "signature touches". The best-selling signature pieces consist of ultra-mini skirts (and they mean ultra), lacy pink camisoles, baby tees (and they mean baby), and cropped sweatshirts - among other revealing pieces. 

Frischer related that Collins photographed the, seemingly, teen models at "the same high school the photographer used for Olivia Rodrigo's "Good 4 U" music video". Why? It was done, strategically, to further: "[...] the appeal of the new collaboration for angsty teens and angsty-teens-at-heart everywhere." 

I would imagine that only an angsty teen would wear a pink lace baby graphic tee with an ultra-mini camo skirt to her high school English class, because I opine that Blumarine by Marc Jacobs is giving 1970s Times Square (teen) prostitutes.

Interestingly, of the graphic pieces, Frischer shared that Nicola Brognano, Blumarine's Creative Director, related: “Each piece of the capsule is a gem and truly reflects today's spirit, balancing ease and coolness in the most feminine and lighthearted way." Feminine? Yes. Lighthearted? No

And Ava Nirui, the creative director of Heaven by Marc Jacobs, said in a statement. "[...] I think this collection makes total sense for both of us."

David Hamilton's "Tendres cousines" (1980)

In the end, Marc Jacobs’ perfume campaigns raises some rhetorical questions: 

1. What does (near) teen nudity and sapphic diversions have to do with (selling) perfume? 
2. Were Jacobs and Coppola inspired by David Hamilton? 
3. And would the ASA approve of Blumarine by Marc Jacobs?

From the NY Times to Podcasts and A-List Celebrities: Schoolgirl Sleepover Sex?!

Back in 2022, we wrote about the New York Times Magazine THE ETHICIST piece “My Daughter Is Having Sex With Her Best Friend. Must I Tell Her Mom?” (March 22, 2022) The piece is about a mother who needs advice, because her teen daughter is having girl-on-girl sex during sleepovers with her best friend.

Here's part of the question submitted to THE ETHICIST:

My daughter is in a newly romantic relationship with her best friend, who is also female. Both are in their midteens. My daughter recently confided in me that they have had sex. She insists, however, that I am not allowed to tell the friend’s mother, because the mother wouldn’t let them have sleepovers or hang out as much. My ex-husband is the one who hosts the sleepovers, and he looks the other way when they are in the bedroom, reasoning that (or so my daughter tells me), “It’s OK because there are no penises involved.” [...] Are my ex-husband’s actions egregious? Name Withheld

We decided to revisit the New York Times piece after we listened to the “My First Time (with a woman)” episode of the Becca Moore podcast. On the podcast, Moore shared that during middle school sleepovers, she and her friends would “sit in a circle and all make out with each other.” Moore shared:

Like, honestly, in middle school we used to, like, sit in a circle and all make out with each other. And no boys would be around. I don't really know why we were doing that, but I did love those sleepovers. That was fun.

By high school, Moore and her girls were still making out, but by high school boys were present during the sleepovers. Consequently, the making out wasn’t for pleasure anymore but for entertainment. Moore shared:

And then when I got to high school, we would have sleepovers and make out, like, play spin the bottle but boys would be there. And it was kind of, like, a little bit, I will say, the high school one, was a little bit performative.

I think that we were not really, like, turned on. We were only doing it because boys were watching, and I think we thought that it was hot for them to watch - at least from my perspective. I think I was more so thinking about the boys and than the girls.

Miley Cyrus (13)

Speaking of middle-school girl-on-girl sex and podcasts, Miley Cyrus shared with Alex Cooper on the Call Her Daddy podcast (August 13, 2020) that when Cyrus was a pre-teen she had a girl-on-girl orgy, which Cooper referred to as “amazing”.

Miley Cyrus with Alex Cooper

Cyrus: "Yeah, when I was like 11 or 12 [...] I got most of my girlfriends to hook up with me."

Cooper: "That is such an amazing [thing]. That's amazing!"

Cyrus: "The first time I ever hooked up with anyone was with a girl. Two of them."

Cooper: "And did you go past first base?"

Cyrus: "Yeah! Oh yeah!"

Cooper: "Miley's like, 'Of course. Oh my God. Absolutely.'"

Jessica Simpson (13) 

Jessica Simpson shared in her memoir, Open Book, that she had pre-teen girl-on-girl sex, from the age of 6 to 12, with a family friend. Of course, the sex happened during sleepovers. Simpson wrote:

It would start with tickling my back [...]

Eventually it wasn't just at nighttime. She would get me to go into a closet with her, or just find a way to linger until we were alone. It got to the point that she would sneak into the bathroom to watch me shower.

In addition, Simpson confessed to People that she was “very shameful”, because she initiated girl-on-girl sex during sleepovers with her family friend as well:

“I allowed it to happen, so I felt that I was as much of the abuser as the abused. So I was very shameful during that time, from 6 to 12 years old.”

Nancy Friday's My Secret Garden: Women’s Sexual Fantasies (Trident Press, 1973) is an international bestselling “groundbreaking” collection of women's fantasies. (Interestingly, Friday’s husband was Norman Pearlstein - the editor-in-chief of Time, Inc.) In the book, several women shared their middle school girl-on-girl sexual escapes during sleepovers.

Clarissa shared that she remembers when she and her friend were caught masturbating with candles when they were 12.

Marina began to be aware of men at the age of 9 or 10 and thought about them while she masturbated; however, Marina only had "a vague idea of what lovemaking was" until she met her friend, a 10-year-old Mediterranean girl. Marina and the Mediterranean nymphet used to sit at opposite ends of the bathtub and pour warm water from a Russian silver teapot all over their clitorises while caressing their bodies "with infallible, instinctive verve."

Celia shared that when she was about 8, she used to bully her: "[...] friend into playing games where we had to pretend to take off our clothes and the 'wicked man' would make us walk in the street [...]" In addition, Celia confessed that when she was 10, she wanted to be a stripper and that she had "intimate contact" with her girlfriend.

And when Alison was 14, she had an "[...] unusual relationship with a close girlfriend." For example, Alison's girlfriend would dress her in a sexy bikini made of chiffon scarves, before she pretended that she was a "rowdy seaman" and raped Allison.

Of course, pre-teen girl-on-girl sex is restricted to sleepovers. For example, Liara Roux shared in her memoir, Whore of New York: A Confession (Repeater Books, 2021), that she had pre-teen girl-on-girl sex with the "very beautiful" Melissa. In the 5th grade. Outdoors. In the woods. During a youth retreat. In the Catskills. Roux wrote:

One day, when we were walking to whatever activity was next, she asked me if I wanted to skip it [...] As we got further away from the camp, she stepped off the trail. I followed her. We wandered through the trees, and I tripped over a rock hidden under the snow.

We got to a clearing and she plopped on the ground, then started making a snow angel. “What about your pants?” I asked. “Won’t they get wet?” [...] “They already are.” I blushed at the implication. Seeing my flushed face, she stood up, walked to me, and kissed me [...] I couldn’t hold myself back. I kissed her, putting my hands around her neck, pulling her in.

[...] I pressed myself against her and we fell in the snow [...] I rolled on top of her, kissed her again [...] She wiggled, unzipping her coat, unzipping mine, and our hands were on each other’s chests, grasping at softness. I kissed her neck; she moaned and put my breast in her mouth [...] After much maneuvering, she pulled off her glove and stuck her hand down my pants. The chill of her fingertips pressing into me.

We walked back to camp, our faces flushed.

Unsurprisingly, pre-teen girl-on-girl sex isn’t limited to nonfiction. For example, in Lolita, Lolita confessed to Humbert Humbert that she had pre-teen “sapphic diversions” with Elizabeth Talbot - Lolita’s tent-mate at summer camp. Nabokov wrote:

Her astounding tale started with an introductory mention of her tent-mate of the previous summer, at another camp, a “very select” one as she put it. That tent-mate (“quite a derelict character,” “half-crazy,” but a “swell kid”) instructed her in various manipulations. At first, loyal Lo refused to tell me her name.

“Well,” she said. “[...] her name was Elizabeth Talbot, she goes now to a swanky private school, her father is an executive.”

I recalled with a funny pang the frequency with which poor Charlotte [Lolita’s mother] used to introduce into party chat such elegant tidbits as “when my daughter was out hiking last year with the Talbot girl.”

I wanted to know if either mother learned of those sapphic diversions?

“Gosh no,” exhaled limp Lo mimicking dread and relief, pressing a falsely fluttering hand to her chest.

"Miller’s Girl" (2024) | Winnie Seduces Mr. Fillmore

And most recently in the film Miller’s Girl (2024), that was written and directed by a woman, Cairo (Jenna Ortega) and Winnie decided to sext Mr. Fillmore - their high school’s physics teacher and baseball coach. 

"Miller’s Girl" (2024) | Cairo and Winnie Sext Mr. Fillmore

In the sext, the schoolgirls are engaged in girl-on-girl kissing, which, per Winnie, is what all girls do when they’re alone at night. 

Cairo said to Winnie, “You should tell him [via sext] you’re with me. And that we’re doing what all girls do when they’re alone at night.”

Mr. Fillmore texted: And what might that be?

Cairo said to Winnie, “[Tell him] [w]e are measuring the depths of our sexuality within the safe confines of our friendship.”

Lastly, the naive (e.g., feminists) would have you believe that (pre) teens engaged in girl-on-girl sex is the sole idea of dirty old men (i.e., porn directors and authors of sleaze), but clearly that’s not the case. And we won’t even (fully) mention the news reports that report that it’s not uncommon for girls to livestream their sleepovers. For example, Alexandra S. Levine posted on Forbes "How TikTok Live Became ‘A Strip Club Filled With 15-Year-Olds’" (Apr 27, 2022). As Moore said, schoolgirls consider it hot for males to watch. In addition, per Levine, teen girls do it for likes, followers and gifts.

(Semi) Nude Leni Klum & Alabama Barker: Sexualized Teens or Teen Sexuality?

16-year-old @leniklum via IG

Leni Klum, Heidi's then-16-year-old daughter, and Alabama Barker, Travis' then-15-year-old daughter, were in the news in 2021. For example:

• Hannah Southwick posted on Page Six: "Heidi Klum’s daughter Leni, 16, covers Glamour Germany 20 years after mom" (April 9, 2021). 
• And Heather Waugh posted on the Daily Mail: "Travis Barker's daughter Alabama, 15, says Shanna Moakler is an absent mom..." (17 May 2021)

What struck us the most after clicking on the links in the articles, was the similarities between the two teens. For example, for the Glamour photoshoot, Leni posed with her denim jacket lowered to expose her young shoulders sans bra straps. Thereby, giving the viewer the impression that she was braless. Bandeau? 

16-year-old Leni Klum

In addition, Leni posted a picture on Instagram with her denim jacket lowered to expose her young shoulders sans bra straps. The post was captioned to promote the magazine's release: "Coming soon… #twomoredays." 

Unsurprisingly, a year later, then-17-year-old Leni went even further in an Instagram post for  RollerCoaster magazine (Autumn/Winter 2021) where she barely covered her large left breast with her small manicured hand. RollerCoaster posted on Instagram: 

In our AW21 issue, the 17 year old cover star shares the best advice her mother has given her, where she finds her style inspiration, and why she’s using her platform to pave the way to a greener planet. #aww

A year later, Kristin Contino reported for Page Six's Style section: "Leni Klum poses pantless for Flaunt magazine" (March 2, 2023). Contino wrote:

No pants, no problem.

Leni Klum, 18, graces the cover of Flaunt magazine’s new issue [...] wearing a pair of Wolford fishnet tights ($55) with nothing over [or under] them [...] 

In the Flaunt piece, then-18-year-old Leni reflected on her mother making her wait to model until she was older, admitting that the decision was smart.

“It would’ve been so different if I’d started [even] younger,” she says in the interview. “I would’ve regretted posting certain photos of myself. I would’ve been like, ‘This was so embarrassing.’” 

In addition, Contino posted on Page Six's Style section: "Leni Klum shows off her nighttime routine in lingerie" (November 30, 2022). Thereby, giving Page Six readers the impression that Leni wore an Intimissimi thong to bed.

Heidi Klum’s 18-year-old daughter showed off a festive red lingerie set on Instagram as she promoted the new Intimissimi line she modeled in a campaign for with her mom — and her unusual pose stirred up lots of attention from fans.

Sitting on a bathroom sink with her feet placed inside, Leni [seductively] holds a toothbrush in her mouth as she sports the brand’s red lace bra ($69) and matching “’80s style thong” ($15) in the snapshot.

And Kristin Contino posted on Page Six: "Leni Klum heats up Instagram with nearly topless snap" (March 16, 2023). In the photo, the then-18-year-old covered her fountains, which were (barely) covered with a skin bra, with her hands. And she captioned the post "I LOVE YOU".

No shirt, no problem.

Leni Klum, 18, posed in a pair of jeans and a bra on her Instagram Story yesterday, with the rising model following in the footsteps of her famous mom, Heidi, as she covered her breasts with her hands in the sexy photo. 

The New York college student wore a nude bandeau bra with the strap hanging down her shoulder in the pic, writing “I LOVE YOU”

No shirt, no problem? Apparently, not - as Heidi is also prone to post revealing photos on social media. Like mother, like daughter? Apparently, so. 

15-year-old @alabamabarker 

As for Alabama, she made a TikTok with her pajama top lowered to expose her young shoulders; however, her designer bra strap, which she fingered, was visible. 

Arguably, Alabama's exposed shoulders post may be more conservative than Leni's, but Alabama was not conservative in some of her other TikTok posts. For instance, in another TiKTok, she rubbed her fountains over her latex and aimed her young derrière at her iPhone's camera.

15-year-old Alabama Barker via Daily Mail

But what may be the most interesting thing about Leni's photoshoot and Instagram post and Alabama's TikToks is that some argue, like journalist Taylor Lorenz, that the teens were not being sexualized, but that they were displaying their teen sexuality. And that Leni and Alabama used the allure of nymphets to their own advantage? For example, Leni to sell Intimissimi (teen) thongs and Alabama for likes and/or followers. 

Interestingly, Taylor Lorenz opined on the New York Times' "Popcast" podcast (SEP 16, 2020) that "there's a lot of overreaction" over the sexualization of teens on TikTok. Lorenz opined:

And I think that, you know, young women should feel confident in expressing themselves. You know, and if they wanna dance to a certain song and that makes them feel good and they wanna put that on the Internet [...] I think that a lot of the concern over-sexualization of [...] [teens] and stuff is very focused around young women and can sometimes be used as an excuse to kind of shame them for things that you know maybe they, like, don't deserve it for - there's a lot of overreaction [...] 

Famous Age-Gap Romances: The Kennedys | Old Man Joe, JFK and Michael

Joseph P. Kennedy Senior: “Old Man Joe”\“The Old Bugger”

About 20 years ago, I used to frequent the non-fiction section of the Central Brooklyn Public Library where, one weekend, I picked up a copy of Seymour M. Hersh's The Dark Side of Camelot. Besides the scintillating details of John F. Kennedy's (JFK’s) infidelities, a footnote on page 27 about JFK’s father, Joseph P. Kennedy Sr., left me gobsmacked. 

Joseph P. Kennedy Sr

In the footnote, Hersh noted that “Old Man Joe” (i.e., 69-year-old Joseph P. Kennedy Sr.), after a round of golf, had boisterous sex with his teen caddie from the French Riviera, which could be overheard by Old Man Joe’s wife Rose Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson and Bobby Baker.

No outsider can fully comprehend the dynamics of another family’s life, but outsiders were often shocked by what they encountered in the Kennedy household. In 1957 Lyndon Johnson, the Senate majority leader, was asked to make a speech in Palm Beach. It seemed only natural when Rose Kennedy telephoned and invited him to come to the family’s beachfront home for lunch. Johnson, recovering from a serious heart attack, was accompanied on the trip by Lady Bird, his wife; Bobby Baker, his aide and confidant; and Senator George Smathers, of Florida. 

“So we went over for lunch,” Baker recalled in an interview for this book. 

Rose Kennedy, gracious and charming, was alone. 

Suddenly, Baker said, “Old Man Joe comes in with a seventeen- or eigh-teen-year-old girl. Doesn’t say boo. Walks right in and goes upstairs” and engages in what, clearly and noisily, is sexual intercourse. 

“Here you have the majority leader of the Senate and he and Jack had a great relationship,” Baker told me. 

“I thought it was the rudest thing I’ve ever seen.” 

The lunch went on as if nothing had happened. Baker learned later, he said, that the young woman was Joe Kennedy’s caddy from the French Riviera, where the Kennedys maintained a vacation home.

About ten years later, over dinner at a David Chang restaurant in midtown, a Berkeley professor suggested that I reference Truman Capote’s Answered Prayers, which has been described as a nonfiction novel. 

In the book, Lady Ina Coolbirth shared that when she was 18 and a friend of Joseph P. Kennedy Sr’s daughter, she attended a sleepover at the Kennedy’s house where “the old bugger” sexually assaulted her while the rest of the Kennedy’s slept soundly. 

Lady Ina Coolbirth, “Have I ever told you about the time he assaulted me? When I was eighteen and a guest in his house, a friend of his daughter Kek …”

“… the old bugger slipped into my bedroom. It was about six o’clock in the morning, the ideal hour if you want to catch someone really slugged out, really by complete surprise, and when I woke up he was already between the sheets with one hand over my mouth and the other all over the place. The sheer ballsy gall of it—right there in his own house with the whole family sleeping all around us.”

Coolbirth went on to excuse the old bugger’s audacious behavior by implying that Kennedy men just have to have sex with as many women as possible. 

“But all those Kennedy men are the same; they’re like dogs, they have to pee on every fire hydrant. 

Coolbirth even opined that the old bugger should be given credit for his audacious assault. And that when she volunteered not to scream, he was grateful. 

“Still, you had to give the old guy credit, and when he saw I wasn’t going to scream he was so grateful …”

However, Coolbirth was very disappointed that Kennedy Sr did not acknowledge her post-sex with at least “a wink or a nod”. And that he didn’t reward her for pretending to enjoy the age-gap sex with at least a “bauble, [or] a cigarette box” as a “sentimental acknowledgment”. 

“Afterward—can you imagine?—he pretended nothing had happened, there was never a wink or a nod, just the good old daddy of my schoolgirl chum. It was uncanny and rather cruel; after all, he’d had me and I’d even pretended to enjoy it: there should have been some sentimental acknowledgement, a bauble, a cigarette box …” 

Interestingly, Capote based Coolbirth’s character on a New York City socialite whom reportedly shared the story in confidence with Capote. 

John F. Kennedy

Mimi Alford wrote in Once Upon a Secret: My Affair with President John F. Kennedy and Its Aftermath that when she was 18 and a student at Miss Porter's Boarding School, she visited the White House. Consequently, a year later, Mimi received an unsolicited phone call to do an internship at the White House. 

Per Once Upon a Secret, four days after Mimi started her press office internship, the then-19-year-old received a phone call from Dave Powers. Powers was described as one of the President’s closest aides, his official title was Special Assistant to the President, he was known as The First Friend, and Mimi wrote: “Above all, Dave Powers’s job was to make the President happy.”

“Want to have a swim?” asked a male voice on the other end of the line.

“Who is this?” I asked, though the voice sounded familiar.

“It’s Dave Powers.”

Mimi Alford and President JFK

After Powers assured Mimi that there would be other young women (i.e., Priscilla “Fiddle” Wear and Jill Cowan - former roommates at Goucher College) and bikinis at the pool, he arrived at her desk “within minutes” to escort her to the White House’s pool were Mimi followed enthusiastic then-23-year-old Fiddle and Jill into the dressing room. (Note: The pool's murals “with palm trees swaying in the breeze and puffy sailboats moving through turquoise water” were a gift of Joseph Kennedy Sr.”)

Fiddle and Jill didn’t waste any time wondering; they just started stripping down and leaping into suits. Their enthusiasm was contagious, so I reached for the first suit at hand.

After leaping into a bikini, Mimi “stole a glance” at herself and admired her “good posture” and “long legs” that “played up” her “[...] height and slimness.”

After JFK walked into the pool area, Mimi noted that he was: “[...] handsome, tan, in a suit and tie.”

“Mind if I join you?” he asked.

Fiddle, ever confident, said, “Our pleasure, Mr. President.” 

After JFK changed into “dark swimming trunks”, Mimi noted that: “He was remarkably fit—flat stomach, toned arms—for a forty-five-year-old man.”

 The President slid into the pool and floated up to me. “It’s Mimi, isn’t it?” he said.

 “Yes, sir,” I said. “Mimi Beardsley.”

After some brief bantering, JFK said, “Well, nice to see you, Mimi,” “and he floated away toward Fiddle and Jill.”

Minutes later, the pool party was over, Mimi changed out of her wet suit and returned to her desk. But before her hair could dry, Mimi received another call from The First Friend whom invited Alford to a “welcome-to-the-staff get-together” in JFK’s family residence, which Mimi wrote was: “[...]  impossible to turn down.” Alford wrote:

For the second time in a few hours, I followed him to an unfamiliar part of the White House.

When the elevator door opened on the second floor it finally dawned on me that I was standing in the family residence. It was a grand, elegant space, an oasis of calm [...] 

Naturally, Fiddle and Jill were already there. And strategically, Powers offered Mimi a daiquiri, and she did not protest when Powers strategically refilled her cold glass. 

Strategically, Mimi learned from Fiddle and Jill that: 

Mrs. Kennedy and the two children, four-year-old Caroline and eighteen-month-old John John, had left for Glen Ora, the house the Kennedys rented in Virginia, where the First Lady kept her horses.

When JFK entered the room: “[...] everyone rose to their feet, as if “Hail to the Chief” had begun to play [...]” Subsequently, JFK asked, “Would you like a tour of the residence, Mimi?” Mimi naively thought: “A private tour of the White House from the President of the United States. This was an extraordinary invitation.”

45-year-old JFK led 19-year-old Mimi across the central hall into Mrs. Kennedy’s “very private” bedroom.

“This is Mrs. Kennedy’s bedroom,” he said.”

“Beautiful light, isn’t it?” he said. I agreed. 

“This is a very private room,” he said.

Seconds later, JFK was undressing Mimi. 

The next thing I knew he was standing in front of me, his face inches away, his eyes staring directly into mine. He placed both hands on my shoulders and guided me toward the edge of the bed. I landed on my elbows, frozen halfway between sitting up and lying on my back. Slowly, he unbuttoned the top of my shirtdress and touched my breasts. Then he reached up between my legs and started to pull off my underwear. I couldn’t believe what was happening. 

Mimi wrote that she was surprised that she began to undress. 

But more: I couldn’t believe what I did next. I finished unbuttoning my shirt dress and let it fall off my shoulders. He pulled down his pants and then he was above me.

Audaciously, JFK took Mimi’s virginity upon his wife’s private bed and, thereby, consummated their 18-month-long age-gap affair.

Mimi related on NBC’s Rock Center (2013) that when Jacqueline Kennedy asked President Kennedy to let her stay with him in the White House during the height of the Cuban Missile Crisis, Kennedy summoned Mimi to the White House instead.

Michael Kennedy

Michael Kennedy and Marisa Verrochi

About five years ago, I was reading the New York magazine feature “What Hope Hicks Knows” (March 18, 2018) when I read about Martin Gould, a New York based reporter, whom outed Hicks and Rob Porter, the White House staff secretary Hicks had been dating, in the Daily Mail, but more relevantly, I learned that Gould: 

“[…] was charged with driving Victoria Gifford Kennedy, the estranged wife of Michael Kennedy, off the road in pursuit of a photo after she’d left her husband over his affair with [Marisa Verrochi] their [14-year-old] babysitter.”

According to Margaret Carlson’s CNN piece “Divorce, Kennedy-style” (May 12, 1997) Michael Kennedy’s five-year affair with MarisaVerrochi began when Marisawas Michael’s 14-year-old babysitter. Carlson wrote:

[...] Michael Kennedy, the sixth child of Robert Kennedy [and six-term Congressman], who once seemed to have his father's quiet passion without the Kennedy sense of entitlement [...] had a five-year affair with a girl who baby-sat his three children at the family home in Cohasset, Mass., beginning when she was a 14-year-old middle school student. 

Carlson related that the Boston Globe reported (April 25, 1997) that Victoria Denise Gifford, Michael’s wife and daughter of ABC sportscaster Frank Gifford: 

“[...] discovered [37-year-old] Michael in bed with the teenage babysitter in January 1995, an incident Michael blamed on alcohol.”

Michael blamed the age-gap adultery on alcohol, he enrolled in a rehab problem, naturally, the Prosecutor Jeffrey Locke did not press charges of statutory rape, and Michael continued seeing Marisa. So much so that the New York Daily News reported that when Marisa was 17: “[…] Kennedy flaunted the relationship by taking the teenager along on a whitewater rafting trip to Maine with friends where they shared a tent […]” Carlson elaborated:

The baby-sitter story broke in the Boston Globe on April 25, just as Michael and Victoria Gifford Kennedy, the daughter of ABC sportscaster Frank Gifford, were officially separating. The paper reported that Victoria had discovered Michael in bed with the teenage babysitter in January 1995, an incident Michael blamed on alcohol. He then enrolled in a rehab program. But apparently, the two continued to be seen together around the wealthy seaside town and, according to a report in the Herald, even went on a whitewater rafting trip, organized by his closest friends, and shared a tent. 

Interestingly, Carlson reported that Marisa's father was a prominent businessman. Consequently, Marisa had: “[...] an upbringing that included a uniformed chauffeur.” And Carlson reported that Marissa’s family was so close with Michael Kennedy’s family that: "Michael Kennedy would [strategically] call her parents and say they were going to be out late and that she should just sleep over."

The age-gap affair ended after Marisa started her freshman year at Boston University. 

“He paused briefly when he felt some physical resistance.

“Haven’t you done this before?” he asked.

“No,” I said.

 “Are you okay?” he asked.

[...]  

I nodded, propped up on my elbows.

 After he finished and hitched up his pants, he smiled at me and pointed to a door in the corner.

 “There’s the bathroom if you need it,” he said.

In the end, JFK bid Mimi adieu and ordered a car to take her home.  

“Good night, Mimi,” he said as the door opened. “I hope you’re okay.”

“I’m fine, Mr. President.”

Downstairs, a guard showed me to the South Portico, and there, as promised, was the car to take me home.”

Mimi related on NBC’s Rock Center (2013) that when Jackie O asked President Kennedy to let her stay with him in the White House during the height of the Cuban Missile Crisis, Kennedy summoned Mimi to the White House instead.

And speaking of JFK and swimming pools, per Darwin Porter and Danforth Prince’s book Elizabeth Taylor: There is Nothing Like a Dame, 16-year-old Elizabeth Taylor had a swimming pool threesome with her A Date with Judy (1948) co-star 29-year-old Robert Stack and 31-year-old congressman John F. Kennedy.